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Shifter (Pre-Alpha 0.0.009) MUSIC BREAK

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  • They live in a dimension where each era of time exists as its own area.

    meaning they could literally walk from the stone age to the present. Kinda similar to limbo
  • edited May 2018
    @CrimsonBlackGames
    In that case, they probably went by portal to check on an anomaly that was disrupting timespace. Anything that disrupts timespace defies universal law and the bounties are usually enormously high to put a stop to the cause of it. If timespace distortion affects parallel or intersecting universes, you can cross through them, but any sane being would never dare, as they would surely die. Sanity recently lost in Hell, the two of them have virtually no fear or emotions besides anger at that point in time. They already died, all that matters is whatever gets them paid.
  • Thats a super duper cool Background story. So many details and well developed.
    But for a game It couldn't be all shown in a cinematic. Just a summary.
    It could be like Skyrim or LoL it have a lot of history but doesn't appears in the game. You have to search for it. (not much fan of that but imagine having to watch 2 seasons of an anime just to play a game ahah)
  • edited May 2018
    @PixelPizza
    Thanks, I appreciate you guys reading it and glad you're finding it interesting. Sorry it is so long, I've been writing this stuff since 2010 or so.

    I was thinking that as you play the game, chapters unlock flashbacks that can be viewed in a gallery, but I'm very very limited on frames in flowlab, so animation cutscenes are impossible. Maybe YouTube can host them, and you just unlock achievements with links, Idk.

    Sonic started out as just some game, then had 4 tv versions and a MASSIVE comic series with tons of prequel info. Nobody needs to know all the details, just anything important that explains the situation.
  • edited May 2018
    Whoa, I'm glad I never have time to work on this game. I just got home from spending 4 hours at the gym, so being tired and a little spaced out, I had this random thought on my way home about Smash Bros shielding and dodging and realized I couldn't do that with how my engine currently works. I never got even 20% done with my physics system and man am I glad I didn't. I reviewed my game logic and it is complete garbage. What the heck was I even thinking, using behavior bundles as folders and a button to button logic gate system? I should be using a more advanced version of my original number system for directions. If you remember, it was something like up is 1, right is 2, down is 4 and left is 8, so up right is 3, down right is 6, down left is 12, and up left is 9, and since you can't press left and right at the same time, or up and down at the same time (assuming you are using a controller like you should be), you can't get a 3 button mixed number, so no combination of directions could ever equal a base number.

    I would do the same for the right toggle stick but 11, 22, 44, and 88, (11 because otherwise you could get 12 again with both sticks, if it was 10) with 4 buttons being 111 222 333 444, dpad being 1111, 2222, 3333, 4444, and triggers being 11111, 22222, 33333, 44444, with start, select, and power being 111111, 222222, 333333.

    This will give me completely unique numbers for every single possible button press. No amound of button combinations could ever equal the same number as a different combination. This way, I can't run and shield at the same time, I can have angle specific jumps, angle specific attacks, angle specific dives, and button specific combos that won't ever run into any animations or movements arguing with each other over priority, like so many other games have with button combos.

    I can further enforce specific animations based on environment, angle, health, and whether you are standing, swimming, or in the air.

    No idea why I didn't do this before. I would have had to delete everything. Great ideas always come to me when I'm really exhausted and don't think about it, like when you can't sleep because your brain won't shut up, or when you're relaxing in the shower.
  • Well do you mind if I "steal" this idea for the new Awakening logic.

    I was really having problems with the buttons combos for wall run, wall jump bla bla...

    This could really work.... so Can I use it and test it?
  • edited May 2018
    @PixelPizza Go ahead. I recommended it back when it was just for directions to not get mixed up, and to prevent air running. This new version should work up to Ps3/Xbox 360 controllers with Joy2Key. My first game I would accidently heal or spindash while running, because so many commands used S. This would let me specify what exact number does what with S. I could have holding s with no directions be heal, holding down with s be spin dash, and left or right with s be a faster run. However, if you tried to hold right or left and down with s, I could have it be a slower run, a roll, or just have it be also a faster run in case someone accidentally tilts down while running, but aren't trying to spin dash. This way, it's completely impossible for me to ever be healing and moving or spin dashing and running at the same time.
  • Other solution that I thought and I am almost sure that it works:

    A character (in this case, the player) divided into body parts. An object for the arms, other for the body and head and another one for the legs. All of them would work as one.

    Now you ask why? Well, you would save a lot of work in animations. For the current thing I want to do in Awakening I would need a lot of animations like:
    The basic ones: Idle, walk, run, up jump, direction jump, falling and a backflip

    Then I would have to fuse it with other movements, combos and abilities so I would have to add even more animations. In this example the basic thing shooting:
    Shooting
    Idle and shooting
    walking and shooting
    running and shooting
    jumping up and shooting
    jumping for a side and shoot 45º degrees
    backflipping and shooting

    and with more abilities like wall-run and shooting... etc. you get it. a lot.

    With this, I would spare a lot of time because I would just need to do like 3 or 4 animations for each body part. And then would connect ones with which others. Make the "Body and head" part as the main one that would spawn the other 2 parts and would send messages about what is happening in the character.

    All of that shooting animations would be turned in just one animation to the arms.

    Watcha think?
    ( I may also use this for my bosses, I could do much more interesting fights with bigger (like I always wanted) bosses, more attacks variety and a better hitbox.)

    Imagine it. I could do a boss where you would need to climb over him. Just like in the epic Shadow of the Colossus.
  • edited May 2018
    I tried it, and it's a little bit of a pain to do. I don't know how you plan to do it, but I tried just doing a top half of the body and bottom half of the body with a rotating arm for shooting in a Metroid type game, and they would either desync, or the Collision would be really weird. I originally did it because I wanted the bottom half to turn into the morph ball and the top half disappear, but I couldn't always get the body parts to stay together. Maybe you would have better luck than I did. @PixelPizza
  • Did you try using extractors (plugged with a timer repeater or an always) and expressions?

    Like for the arms, I would extract the X and Y of the body and head part and then with the expression will always an add a certain amount of pixels so they stay always in their place.

    Now that you mention the collision I was thinking of only the body and head part would be solid but then the legs would go inside the floor. Maybe it's better if I just do 2 body parts, the everything one and one just for the arms (the arms body part wouldn't be solid).
  • edited May 2018
    @PixelPizza
    Let me know how that works. I've tried several different ways in the past, but flowlab has gotten a lot of updates since then. Maybe you have a better method. Games like Super Metroid and Metal Slug have the top half and bottom half separate animations. Anything more than that and I feel like it's more complicated than just making a bunch of animations.
  • Would be useful if we could add an anchor point to the object... Instead of the object turning around him it would rotate around a point.

    In this case in the shoulders.

    @grazer
  • edited May 2018
    @PixelPizza
    I could be wrong, but I believe I remember attach being more flexible. It used to not force center, so if you had for example a sprite the same size as your character, and you attach it, it would overlay exactly the same, so if you made a sprite for pants, overlaying the same area that the attached object has pants, it would work perfectly. Now for whatever reason, the new version of attached centers anything you attached to an object. If I put a pair of pants on my character using attached, it would be at their stomach chest area. I don't like how attach works now.
  • Just tested the Attacher and it works the "flexible way". If I draw the sprite in the top corner it will remain there not in the center.

    But still the rotation will screw everything up.
  • @PixelPizza
    Really? I'll have to check that out. Last time I had a 32x64, and the arm centered at the waist. Interesting. Maybe I missed another update?
  • If you make a pair of pants to attach to your player - The pants would remain still instead of following all the player animations.

    I just think that attacher it's just good for items, backpacks and non-living things.
  • @PixelPizza
    That's what animations are for.
  • Would it be perfect? Like the animations activating the same time....
    humm yeah it would, I think
  • If you use the same animations, but remove the body, and they activate at the same time, it should always overlap just right. If anything, hats should at least always work. I'd imagine there has to be some relatively consistent and easy way to make customizable characters for RPGs and so on.

    If I ever have the game built from scratch by professional coders, I'll have it done in Unity or something 3D, and make faux 2D characters. It will texture them to look like sprites and remove z depth, but it will make it sooooo much easier to equip clothes, weapons, and modify facial features for multiplayer customization. I won't have to make a billion sprites and animations, it will just be flat colors on animated 3D characters with no z depth and pixel shaders.
  • edited June 2018
    Having one of those idea dead ends, where you know kinda what you want to do, but not enough to finish it. I have 3 songs started and a few menu concepts. I'm also reading into micro/molecular biology to further understand cells, so I can make a few nanocell animations.

    Oh, and if anyone was wondering why I named the game Shifter, it comes from Paradigm Shift, which is when you change how you view existence. The main reason Mhx is over 1000 years old and wants to live forever, is the desire to learn and understand everything, why and how things work, do they have to work that way, what happens if you change them, is this possible, is anything really impossible, and so on. More knowledge changes your perspective on life, therefore creating an infinitely shifting paradigm. Using technology and/or being a spirit removes your original human brain's limitations of memory and learning. It's basically a game of seeking all knowledge, while cheating death and playing god.

    Anyway, I should be able to make a good start on the main menu today before going to work. I have all the logic written down, so I just have to turn on my laptop after I charge it, since it has been unused for weeks.
  • Spent most of the day setting up the computer to stream without lag on the TV, to see how the game would look on a large HD TV, and as expected, it looks bad. Games do not upscale very well, it already looks bad when I make it full-screen on just my computer. That just means if I get the game to the demo stage, and I get it kickstarted, I'll just have professional artists and professional coders port the game to console in 1080p. My graphics of course weren't going to be the end product, I'm not that talented, it's more of just a rough draft.

    I also happened to find some new developers in a group that are looking to make music and get their name out there, and I'm currently in contact with a few of them, possibly going to get some original tracks for the main menu, and if that goes well, I might just have them remix whatever soundtrack I make for the levels. I'll update again when I actually have something made.
  • edited June 2018
    NEED AN OPINION
    I'm working on main menu concept art. This will take me about a week or two to make, this is concept, not the final result. I'm just trying to get an idea of how I want it to look. So, here's where I need advice.
    Which of these shard angles looks better? Shine from above, or shine from below?
    Personally I like the below better, as it flows up-right with sparks of electricity instead of down-left.
    @grazer @CrimsonBlackGames @PixelPizza @Latif3

    ABOVE
    test

    BELOW
    test

    Also, how do you feel about the new menu concept vs the old concept from 2016?
    I feel like I have made major artistic improvements over the last 2 years, even if I made no progress. I'd rather make no progress than only make bad choices and have to start all over.
    a
  • edited June 2018
    Added another button and a screen that will display whatever button is highlighted
    The screen shape will be changed, as will all the graphics, again, these are concept placeholders.
    I have to turn everything in this image into separate images that become separate objects that change alpha and size while playing animations on many layers. Props to the game layer limit update.

    test

    Similar to what I did back in this example:
    http://flowlab.io/game/play/737195

    a
  • Well, I will be honest it's good and looks nice but it looks like an futuristic 2010 game, the flashy ones (even if flowlab it's flash, i'm referring to back then when fire boy and water girl was famous).

    Even if your game is futuristic and menu fits the theme. It doesn't look professional. Nowadays games don't use this type of menus. I'm trying to help to make an understandable critic.

    Here are some examples of the menus of recent games (indie and normal):
    download
    hqdefault
    Main_menu_sample_4
    mario-odyssey-save-screen-01
    maxresdefault
    static1.squarespace


    As you can see the games now have clean menus. not to heavy to our eyes. They don't use still images. And make interactive and responsive menus. The enviroment of the backimage feedbacks the player actions.
  • @PixelPizza I'm aware of the simplistic text approach to modern game menus, in fact, almost all mobile games look the same now. This is a throwback to games like WipEout, Ps1 NFS, and racing game style menus from the arcade era. I hate modern style menus. I hate modern style games. That's why I do pixel art. That's basically this whole game, mixing futuristic with retro.

    As for still images, there won't be any. The shards are nanocells in the background, and they pulse like subwoofer speakers, and cells and electrons run between the cracks blasting electric waves as they pass, like nerves in the brain. The icon on the bottom left spins like a coin flipping to Crystal on the other side of Mhx. There is code that runs and types along the right side of the screen. There are scanlines that you may notice already that will run up the screen. The buttons are static neon blue like the logo and screen, but get bigger and glow pulsing neon colors when highlighted. The screen will flicker and glitch like changing channels on an old TV. The Shifter logo will shine across the letters occasionally. The long neon hexagon at the bottom is a Now Playing and information bar that will have text scroll across it from right to left. The whole game screen will occasionally flicker glitch and shake. When you select a button, the whole background pans and the buttons swipe across the screen and fade. Everything will do something when I'm finished.
  • edited June 2018
    Here's an example of how WipEout used to do their WEBSITE. They went all out, making their sites in shockwave or flash back in the day, extremely interactive and flashy. They didn't believe in basic boring sites or menus, and neither do I.

    @PixelPizza

    Also, here's the type of music my menu playlist will have so you see the menu fits the genre.
  • edited June 2018
    One more thing I remembered, Mario Kart still carries on this theme.
    Animated backgrounds, side screens, fake scanlines, swiping buttons.





    Smash Bros used to do it @ 1:29



    It may not be as common anymore but I see no reason to do a simple menu.
    @PixelPizza
  • I'm not talking about a simple menu but a clean menu.
    As you can notice in Mario Kart 8 and WipEout they are clean and don't need much windows and clicks and long text boxes to explain what is what.
    They also use icons to represent each button which is a really nice technique to avoid excessive text or even just a line.
    The less you read the better. It's supposed to be game, not a book.

    Just to repeat don't take this as hate or something. Just sharing my thoughts so we both can improve.

    Look at the deadbolt menu. It fits the theme perfectly. If you stay like for 10 secs in the menu you will see someone entering the house and gunshots and lights etc. which is pretty cool. really gives already an intro to the game. The doorbell is an interesting play which combines the game with the menu so well.
    (sorry about this English)

    Also about the God of war menu. I'm not talking about that crappy text but yet the fact that when you press play he chops the goddam tree and you start playing. It doesn't make the game from a separate screen. Which usually can break the feeling of starting a game. Having a loading screen (doesn't suck) but can kill the hype a bit I guess.
  • asd

    Let me just show you this part of the menu. This is an actual mine screenshot. As you can it's simple but yet simplistic and clean. And play around with the characters and elements of the game to make the buttons.

    Each button has an Illustration (which has a reference to something in the game), an icon which helps you understand in a glance what is what, A simple and quick title, and a phrase and you may notice that it's really small and thin. It doesn't pop up a big window explain detailed what the button does.

    Also when you press the button the screen zooms in and blur the background image. The menu "image" (it's an actual model and they "move") changes every week or month idk and haves different animations obviously this it's not possible with flowlab but yeah just a small example of interactive game menus.
  • edited June 2018
    @PixelPizza
    I don't know what you are suggesting by lots of clicks or long text boxes. The display screen just shows an icon for whatever is highlighted, like action would show running gameplay, adventure would show percentages for items and progress, multiplayer would show a fight or some animation, options would have a spinning gear, etc, and clicking it goes to that menu or mode, nothing complicated.

    As for text boxes, if you mean the bar at the bottom, most WipEout games and some racing games or various apps have them for tips and tricks, update notes, and to display a song that is playing.

    Maybe you're imagining it differently than I am, but it's just a still image concept so it can be interpreted differently by the imagination.

    Also, your definition of clean is my definition of simplistic. It reminds me of when I had an iphone 3 and they updated the graphics and emojis from sleek and shaded to flat colors and I hated it. It just looks like sticky notes. I can't stand it.
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